Legislature(2007 - 2008)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/08/2007 01:00 PM House TRANSPORTATION


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01:03:52 PM Start
01:04:45 PM Department of Transportation Overview: Alaska Marine Highway System
02:54:14 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Joint with Senate Transportation TELECONFERENCED
Department of Transportation Overview:
Alaska Marine Highway System
<Teleconference Listen Only>
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
                         JOINT MEETING                                                                                        
      HOUSE AND SENATE TRANSPORTATION STANDING COMMITTEES                                                                     
                        February 8, 2007                                                                                        
                           1:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE TRANSPORTATION                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
 Representative Kyle Johansen, Chair                                                                                            
 Representative Mark Neuman, Vice Chair                                                                                         
 Representative Anna Fairclough                                                                                                 
 Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                   
 Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                     
 Representative Mike Doogan                                                                                                     
 Representative Woodie Salmon                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATE TRANSPORTATION                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
 Senator Albert Kookesh, Chair                                                                                                  
 Senator John Cowdery, Vice Chair                                                                                               
 Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                            
 Senator Bill Wielechowski                                                                                                      
 Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Joe Thomas                                                                                                              
Representative Andrea Doll                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OVERVIEW:  ALASKA MARINE HIGHWAY                                                                   
SYSTEM                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LEO VON SCHEBEN, Commissioner                                                                                                   
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Provided comments  during the  overview of                                                               
the Alaska Marine Highway System.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JOHN TORGERSON, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                             
of Aviation                                                                                                                     
Office of the Commissioner;                                                                                                     
Acting Deputy Commissioner/Director of Marine Operations                                                                        
Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS)                                                                                             
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Assisted in presenting the  overview of the                                                               
Alaska Marine Highway System and answered questions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOHN FALVEY, General Manager                                                                                                    
Ketchikan Office                                                                                                                
Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS)                                                                                             
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Assisted in presenting the  overview of the                                                               
Alaska Marine Highway System and answered questions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD LEARY, Business Enterprise & Development Manager                                                                        
Alaska Marine Highway System (AMHS)                                                                                             
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Assisted in presenting the  overview of the                                                               
Alaska Marine Highway System and answered questions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
NANCY SLAGLE, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Administrative Services                                                                                             
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF)                                                                       
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions  during the  overview of                                                               
the Alaska Marine Highway System.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR ALBERT  KOOKESH called the  joint meeting of the  House and                                                             
Senate  Transportation Standing  Committees to  order at  1:03:52                                                             
PM.  Present  at the call to order from  the House Transportation                                                             
Standing   Committee  were   Representatives  Johanson,   Salmon,                                                               
Doogan,  Neuman,  and  Fairclough;  Representatives  Johnson  and                                                               
Kohring arrived  as the  meeting was in  progress.   Present from                                                               
the  Senate  Transportation   Standing  Committee  were  Senators                                                               
Kookesh,  Cowdery,   Wielechowski,  and  Wilken;   Senator  Olson                                                               
arrived as the meeting was  in progress.  Representative Doll and                                                               
Senators Elton and Thomas were also in attendance.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
^DEPARTMENT OF  TRANSPORTATION OVERVIEW:   ALASKA  MARINE HIGHWAY                                                             
SYSTEM                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:04:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR KOOKESH announced that the  only order of business would be                                                               
an overview of the Alaska Marine Highway System.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:05:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEO  VON SCHEBEN,  Commissioner, Department  of Transportation  &                                                               
Public Facilities  (DOT&PF), introduced himself and  reviewed his                                                               
experience in  the private sector.   He  said he is  bringing his                                                               
private sector business  philosophy to his job as  the new DOT&PF                                                               
commissioner,  and  that  his  philosophy   is  based  on  client                                                               
satisfaction,  employee   satisfaction,  [providing]   a  quality                                                               
product, having fun, and managing the money.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:11:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN TORGERSON,  Deputy Commissioner  of Aviation, Office  of the                                                               
Commissioner;  Acting  Deputy   Commissioner/Director  of  Marine                                                               
Operations, Alaska  Marine Highway  System (AMHS),  Department of                                                               
Transportation &  Public Facilities (DOT&PF), began  the overview                                                               
by  presenting the  AMHS  mission  statement on  slide  2 of  the                                                               
PowerPoint presentation.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:11:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  FALVEY, General  Manager, Ketchikan  Office, Alaska  Marine                                                               
Highway  System (AMHS),  Department  of  Transportation &  Public                                                               
Facilities (DOT&PF), profiled the AMHS  fleet of 11 vessels shown                                                               
on slide 3.   He said the  MV Matanuska is running  out of Prince                                                               
Rupert, British Columbia,  and turning around in  Juneau in order                                                               
to give  Sitka more  service.   The MV Malaspina  is at  the Todd                                                               
Pacific Shipyard  ("Todd") in  Seattle, Washington,  undergoing a                                                               
major federal  capital overhaul and is  due out in the  middle of                                                               
April.  The MV Taku is  also at Todd undergoing a federal capital                                                               
overhaul  project and  is due  out in  mid-July.   He noted  that                                                               
federal  projects like  these go  out for  bid and  Todd won  the                                                               
bids.  This  is different than the  state-funded six-week capital                                                               
projects,  he said.    The  MV Tustumena  is  in Seward  Shipyard                                                               
undergoing her  routine six-week state capital  overhaul and will                                                               
be out in a few weeks.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY said the MV  Columbia recently underwent generator and                                                               
steering  gear  repair  at  the Alaska  Ship  and  Drydock,  Inc.                                                               
("ASD") in Ketchikan, but is  now back running the system between                                                               
Bellingham,  Washington, and  ports on  the Lynn  Canal.   The MV                                                               
LeConte is operating as a day boat  out of Juneau.  He noted that                                                               
her  schedule and  route were  modified due  to U.S.  Coast Guard                                                               
rules  and regulations  regarding work  rest and  a 12-hour  day.                                                               
The MV  Aurora is running  between Cordova, Valdez,  and Whittier                                                               
in Prince William Sound.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY said the MV Kennicott  is running "the circuit" out of                                                               
Prince Rupert  following an extensive  stay at ASD for  repair of                                                               
hydraulic life-saving  gear and electrolysis problems.   He noted                                                               
that  the MV  Kennicott  is  also currently  picking  up the  run                                                               
between Homer and  Kodiak while the MV Tustumena  is in dry-dock,                                                               
just like  in the  summer when  the MV  Tustumena is  running the                                                               
Aleutian Chain.  The MV Lituya makes  two runs a day, five days a                                                               
week,  from Metlakatla  to Ketchikan  and is  doing so  well that                                                               
passengers  must now  make reservations  in order  to get  on the                                                               
boat.  The  MV Fairweather, a [high-speed] ferry,  runs four days                                                               
a week  during the winter and  runs seven days a  week during the                                                               
summer.     The  MV  Chenega,  another   [high-speed]  ferry,  is                                                               
currently in  extended lay-up at  ASD undergoing  engine warranty                                                               
work for  cylinder corrosion.  He  said this is the  same problem                                                               
had  by  the  MV  Fairweather  and is  due  to  the  manufacturer                                                               
incorrectly  recommending  a  type  of coolant  that  caused  the                                                               
corrosion.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:17:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY,  in response to  a question, explained that  the AMHS                                                               
receives about $20  million annually from the  U.S. Department of                                                               
Transportation  (DOT), Federal  Highway Administration  (FHWA) to                                                               
conduct large  maintenance projects and that  FHWA requires these                                                               
jobs to go out for  bid.  He said that ASD did not  bid on the MV                                                               
Malaspina and  MV Taku  jobs.  He  then continued  explaining the                                                               
ongoing  problems with  the reduction  gears  of both  high-speed                                                               
ferries.  He  said some preliminary modifications  have been done                                                               
to the MV Fairweather and that  an outside company has been hired                                                               
to conduct an engineering analysis  on the entire power trains of                                                               
both vessels.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:18:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FALVEY, in  response to  questions, related  that the  high-                                                               
speed  ferries   have  problems   with  rough  seas   and  debris                                                               
ingestion.   He noted that  the AMHS has established  an internal                                                               
policy that  requires the  [high-speed] ferries  to "stay  at the                                                               
dock" during  sustained 40  knot winds.   In response  to another                                                               
question, he  noted that the  draft of the high-speed  ferries is                                                               
nine feet as  compared to approximately twenty  feet for standard                                                               
ferry vessels.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY,  in response  to further  questions, stated  that the                                                               
manufacturer  has  paid   over  $1  million  to   rebore  the  MV                                                               
Fairweather and  is also  paying to  rebore the  MV Chenega.   He                                                               
said the  problem with reboring  is that legally, there  can only                                                               
be three passes  and there have already been  two; therefore, the                                                               
service life  of the vessels has  been reduced.  He  said AMHS is                                                               
working  closely   with  the   attorney  general's   office,  the                                                               
shipyard, and  the manufacturer to  address the issue  of reduced                                                               
engine life.   Mr.  Falvey said he  would provide  the committees                                                               
with specific information about how the corrosion occurred.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:22:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN noted  that four  of the  AMHS vessels  are older                                                               
than  the youngest  senator  at the  table.   He  asked what  the                                                               
challenges are with the age of the fleet.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY  responded that  it is one  problem after  another and                                                               
that  additional  problems  are  always discovered  each  time  a                                                               
vessel goes  in for repair.   An AMHS study of  several years ago                                                               
determined  that the  service life  of a  hull is  60 years,  but                                                               
mechanically it  is very  challenging to keep  the "guts"  of the                                                               
ship running.   He said  there is  about $16 million  in deferred                                                               
maintenance  that   needs  to  be   done  and  that   AMHS  needs                                                               
recapitalization and  new ships.   He said that he  believes AMHS                                                               
could  operate much  more efficiently  with  new, more  efficient                                                               
ships.    He  said  that  newer ships  are  cheaper  to  maintain                                                               
technically and that they are  more efficient to run because they                                                               
are more  automated.  It will  continue costing more and  more to                                                               
keep  the older  ships  running,  he said.    In  response to  an                                                               
additional  question, Mr.  Falvey  stated that  the total  engine                                                               
life for a fast ferry would be about 20,000-30,000 hours.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:25:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY reviewed the 32 ports of  call shown on slide 4 of the                                                               
PowerPoint presentation.   He  said 17 of  those ports  are state                                                               
facilities and that  the system covers 3500 miles.   Slides 5 and                                                               
6  depicted maps  of the  Southeast and  Southwest Alaska  vessel                                                               
routes.   He  noted that  the Southwest  system is  now receiving                                                               
much more  service than it did  in the past, but  that work still                                                               
needs to be done on the Southeast system.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:26:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD LEARY, Business Enterprise  & Development Manager, Alaska                                                               
Marine  Highway System  (AMHS),  Department  of Transportation  &                                                               
Public  Facilities  (DOT&PF),  pointed  out that  the  number  of                                                               
departures throughout  the ferry system grew  during the calendar                                                               
years of  2003-2006, as shown  on slide 7.   He then  referred to                                                               
slide 8 and noted that  passenger traffic increased by 10 percent                                                               
between  the calendar  years  of  2005-2006.   In  response to  a                                                               
question,  he said  that  he would  provide  the committees  with                                                               
information  comparing vessel  capacity to  the actual  number of                                                               
passengers per departure.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:29:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY,  in response to  a question, stated that  AMHS tracks                                                               
whether passengers  are tourists  or Alaska  residents.   He said                                                               
that  Alaskans  are price  sensitive  and  the previous  downward                                                               
trend  in  ridership was  reversed  when  AMHS implemented  a  30                                                               
percent roundtrip  discount during the winter  months, along with                                                               
the vehicle's driver  riding free.  He noted that  AMHS now has a                                                               
very   aggressive  marketing   plan  that   is  also   increasing                                                               
ridership.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:31:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEARY  reported  that  vehicle  traffic  increased  for  the                                                               
calendar years  of 2005-2006, as shown  on slide 9, but  that the                                                               
increase was  not as  great as  for passenger  traffic.   He said                                                               
that AMHS considers  the income from vehicle traffic  to be "free                                                               
money"  because the  cost  of  sailing is  the  same whether  the                                                               
ship's car deck  is full or empty.  Therefore,  he continued, the                                                               
marketing emphasis  is aimed at  filling the  car deck.   He then                                                               
reviewed the amount  of revenue collected by AMHS  for the fiscal                                                               
years  (FY) 2002-2006  and noted  that revenues  increased by  10                                                               
percent from 2005 to 2006,  reaching a total collected revenue of                                                               
$51.2 million.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:32:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FALVEY discussed  the passenger  survey results  depicted on                                                               
slide 11.   He commended the  service of AMHS employees  and said                                                               
that the  passengers' predominant ratings of  satisfactory, good,                                                               
and excellent are a result of the good work by employees.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:33:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEARY explained  that the pie chart on slide  12 portrays the                                                               
FY 2006 revenue by passenger place of residence.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:34:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON said  that the  marine highway  system serves  the                                                               
entire state, not just coastal  Alaska, as indicated on slide 13.                                                               
He noted  that the final  destinations of AMHS  travelers include                                                               
areas in interior and northern Alaska.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:35:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  JOHANSEN   commented  that  ferry  system   travelers  are                                                               
important  contributors to  the entire  state economy.   He  said                                                               
that many  of the travelers  are military  personnel transferring                                                               
to Interior and other bases.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY confirmed that the  number of military families riding                                                               
the  ferry system  is  quite large  and that  he  would get  that                                                               
figure to the committees.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:38:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON,  in response  to a  question, highlighted  that 67                                                               
percent  of  ferry passengers  are  Alaskans  and that  they  are                                                               
traveling  to   destinations  throughout  the  state,   not  just                                                               
Southeast Alaska.   He  said this  was true for  2006 as  well as                                                               
previous years.   He  next explained  that a goal  of AMHS  is to                                                               
establish  a  minimum  core  level   of  service  that  both  the                                                               
legislature and  the Southeast Conference will  agree to support.                                                               
Even if  this minimum core  schedule is  not as frequent  as what                                                               
the communities would like, it will  at least be a minimum amount                                                               
of  service  that the  traveling  public  can  depend upon  on  a                                                               
sustained basis, he  said.  More sailings could then  be added to                                                               
the  minimum schedule  if the  legislature elects  to appropriate                                                               
additional funding.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON  outlined the  FY 08 budget  depicted on  slide 16.                                                               
He said  the total budget  authority is $152.4 million,  of which                                                               
$98.1 million is the general  fund (GF) request and $52.5 million                                                               
is the estimate  for [fare] receipts.  He  compared these figures                                                               
to the total  FY 07 budget of $133 million,  of which $54 million                                                               
was [fare]  receipts.  Mr.  Torgerson then directed  attention to                                                               
the FY 08 budget of  $235.3 million for the entire transportation                                                               
department and  said this will  be reduced by $21.3  million, the                                                               
department's  share of  the governor's  request for  reducing the                                                               
state's budget by $150 million.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:44:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FALVEY, in  response to  a question,  explained that  a ship                                                               
currently being built in Ketchikan is  for the U.S. Navy and will                                                               
not be operated  by AMHS.  It is an  experimental craft that will                                                               
also be used  to provide passenger service  between Anchorage and                                                               
the Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) Valley.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON said  it is  his  understanding that  the cost  of                                                               
operating the experimental  craft will be borne by  the U.S. Navy                                                               
and the Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) Borough.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:45:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN referenced  statistics  from FHWA  and said  that                                                               
99.1 percent of the miles traveled  in Alaska are by road and 0.9                                                               
percent of the miles traveled are  by ferry.  Using these numbers                                                               
he calculated  that half of  DOT&PF's general funds are  spent on                                                               
0.9  percent of  the  total  miles traveled.    He expressed  his                                                               
belief that  there must  be a better  way of  transportation than                                                               
the ferry system.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:46:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON  returned to the FY  08 budget request on  slide 16                                                               
and  again reviewed  the budget  components,  including the  $1.8                                                               
million in Capital Improvement Funds.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:47:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEARY  reviewed slide 17  depicting the  projected percentage                                                               
of self-financing by each vessel during FY 08.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:49:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FALVEY  reviewed the  overall  transportation  plan and  the                                                               
regional  transportation  plans outlined  on  slides  18-21.   He                                                               
acknowledged  that  there  is  still  work  to  be  done  on  the                                                               
Southeast transportation plan, but  that the Prince William Sound                                                               
and Southwest transportation plans have been implemented.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:52:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON  concluded the overview  by reviewing slide  22 and                                                               
noting that the AMHS is in  transition due to its aging fleet and                                                               
awaiting   implementation   of   the   aforementioned   Southeast                                                               
transportation plan.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:56:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN  stated his belief that  all of the AMHS  ports of                                                               
call  also have  other  transportation  alternatives, unlike  the                                                               
many  roadless  Interior  communities.     He  asked  whether  an                                                               
analysis has been  done to determine the  cost difference between                                                               
state and private transportation services.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON related  that an  in-depth  study was  done a  few                                                               
years ago  for the  larger communities.   The study  compared the                                                               
transportation fees  charged by  the large airlines,  air charter                                                               
services, and barge companies for  moving goods and services.  He                                                               
said that AMHS used  that study to set its rates.   He offered to                                                               
provide the  study report to  the committees.  Mr.  Torgerson, in                                                               
response  to  a question,  further  stated  that while  price  is                                                               
important, other considerations also come  into play, such as the                                                               
urgency of  the travel needed,  what is being hauled  and whether                                                               
it can  go in  an airplane  versus a  boat, and  whether it  is a                                                               
vehicle.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:59:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WILKEN  re-stated  his  opinion  that  people  receiving                                                               
marine  highway   service  should   make  use  of   other  travel                                                               
alternatives  instead   of  requesting   an  increase   in  state                                                               
subsidized ferry  service.  He  requested AMHS to put  together a                                                               
listing of the  annual subsidy amounts that it  has received over                                                               
the past 10 years.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON agreed  to provide  a  10-year summary.   He  then                                                               
emphasized that it is important  to understand that port security                                                               
costs alone  have increased  by $8  million since  [the terrorist                                                               
attacks  of  September  11,  2001,] and  that  fuel  costs  added                                                               
another $15 million.  He pointed  out that the cost of the Public                                                               
Employees' Retirement  System (PERS) is included  within the AMHS                                                               
operating  budget  instead  of  listing it  as  a  separate  cost                                                               
elsewhere.  He  expressed his hope that AMHS  will receive enough                                                               
funding to provide the minimum core service or more.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:04:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN  specified that in  addition to the  annual dollar                                                               
amount of  the state subsidy,  he would like the  10-year summary                                                               
to include the  subsidy's percentage of the GF budget  so that it                                                               
can be determined  whether the state subsidy, as  a percentage of                                                               
the  GF  request, is  growing  or  diminishing.   Senator  Wilken                                                               
further noted that  both the MV Chenega and the  MV Aurora travel                                                               
in and out of Valdez on the same  day.  He referred to slide [17]                                                               
which  shows  that the  MV  Chenega  is the  least  self-financed                                                               
vessel  in  the  fleet.    He requested  that  AMHS  provide  the                                                               
committees with the  load capacities and the  percent of capacity                                                               
utilization for  the MV Chenega and  the MV Aurora over  the past                                                               
two years.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:06:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN questioned  why the MV Chenega was  home ported in                                                               
Cordova  during the  summer.    He stated  that  he believes  the                                                               
Prince William  Sound transportation  plan should change  how the                                                               
MV Chenega  is run.   He  asked that  the committees  be provided                                                               
with  additional, detailed  information about  the new  roads and                                                               
shuttle  ferries  that are  being  proposed  under the  Southeast                                                               
transportation plan.   He  expressed his belief  that a  day boat                                                               
type of system with only one  mainliner traveling out of the Port                                                               
of Bellingham is the way to go in the future.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON,  in response  to a  further question  from Senator                                                               
Wilken, said that there is  no federal money for [marine highway]                                                               
operations, but that there is some  federal money for a couple of                                                               
shuttle ferries if the [Southeast  transportation plan] roads are                                                               
built.  He said that currently  there is not enough federal money                                                               
for all of the planned "build  out" and that the state would need                                                               
to ask the U.S. Congress for additional funding.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:11:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY  related that cost  increases were  anticipated during                                                               
the time  period of building the  [Southeast transportation plan]                                                               
roads  and  shuttle ferries  because  AMHS  would still  need  to                                                               
operate "mainliners" until the new system is in place.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:13:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON,  in response  to a  question, reported  that labor                                                               
costs constitutes  62 percent of  operations cost.  He  said that                                                               
the  hours that  a crew  might work  depends on  the vessel;  for                                                               
example, a vessel  might operate 24 hours a day  and that while a                                                               
crew member  is on the vessel  that entire time, he  or she would                                                               
only work 8-12 hours.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON, in response to  another question, stated that AMHS                                                               
has not  conducted an analysis  in regard to selling  the vessels                                                               
on the  profitable routes to  private enterprise while  the state                                                               
retains and  subsidizes the less  profitable routes.   He further                                                               
responded that  the state  has not sent  formal inquiries  to the                                                               
private  sector to  determine whether  there is  interest in  the                                                               
aforementioned scenario.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:18:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NEUMAN asked  what AMHS has done to  cut costs and                                                               
what is done with personnel who work less than a full year.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEARY referred to the vessel  expenses shown on slide 17.  He                                                               
stated  that labor  costs  constitute 62  percent  of a  vessel's                                                               
expenses.  He  explained that when a vessel is  put into service,                                                               
labor contracts are written that  control the wages and number of                                                               
personnel  on the  boat.   He  noted that  a vessel's  particular                                                               
route  drives  the amount  of  overtime  that  is paid  and  that                                                               
exchanging  crews in  order  to avoid  paying  overtime also  has                                                               
costs.   He said  fuel constitutes 22-23  percent of  the service                                                               
costs and that keeping the engines  in good order helps with fuel                                                               
efficiency.   After labor and  fuel costs, only 15-18  percent is                                                               
left for discretionary costs.   Some of these discretionary funds                                                               
are used  to buy  food that is  sold on board  for a  profit, and                                                               
this is accounted for under the  expense and revenue columns.  He                                                               
noted that  once AMHS  decides to provide  the service,  there is                                                               
very  little  control  over  operational   costs,  but  there  is                                                               
discretion in  controlling administrative  costs.   He emphasized                                                               
that security and regulations have  added major costs in the last                                                               
few years.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:22:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON  reported that  much  of  the vessel  staffing  is                                                               
controlled by U.S.  Coast Guard regulations and  remains the same                                                               
whether or not the number of  passengers is at capacity.  He said                                                               
that current labor  contracts expire in June 2007.   He explained                                                               
that when a vessel goes into  the shipyard, some may then work on                                                               
the projects  that the ship is  undergoing, some of the  crew may                                                               
transfer  to  other vessels  in  the  fleet,  and some  may  take                                                               
vacation.   He explained that a  hiring freeze has been  put into                                                               
place, but that the  only way to save money is  to dock the ships                                                               
and not operate.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY added that AMHS is  in the process of activating a new                                                               
crew dispatch system  that will help cut costs  considerably.  He                                                               
noted that costs  are also cut by running a  vessel fewer days of                                                               
the week  during the winter  months.  He emphasized  that running                                                               
ships is  very expensive  because it is  highly regulated  by the                                                               
federal government and  security is now "costing a  fortune."  He                                                               
said he did not know how many  takers there might be if the state                                                               
tried to  outsource, and  remarked that  outsourcing can  be more                                                               
expensive.    He reiterated  his  belief  that  the key  is  "new                                                               
tonnage"  because   newer  vessels  are  automated,   less  labor                                                               
intensive, and less costly to repair.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:29:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DOOGAN  requested further  clarification regarding                                                               
the study that was used for setting the fare rates.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON explained  that the report compared  costs and then                                                               
suggested rates  that AMHS could  charge.  Comparisons  were made                                                               
to airlines  and to other  ferry systems operating  in Washington                                                               
and British Columbia.  The study  was used as a basis for setting                                                               
the rates that began in FY 05.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON, in response to  a further question, confirmed that                                                               
the study did  determine what would have been, at  that time, the                                                               
true cost  to the  ferry system  of moving  a passenger  from one                                                               
port  to  another.   He  said  he  will  get  the report  to  the                                                               
committees.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:32:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH asked  a series  of accounting-related                                                               
questions:  are  AMHS vessels being depreciated  according to the                                                               
Governmental Accounting Standards  Board (GASB); are depreciation                                                               
costs being moved  into a real account that has  real dollars for                                                               
replacing  the fleet;  are records  available  for comparing  the                                                               
cost and maintenance expenses of the  fast ferries to that of the                                                               
older  vessels;   will  the  apparent  higher   profitability  of                                                               
carrying passengers versus vehicles  be considered when replacing                                                               
vessels; and  why not run  fewer vessels all year  around instead                                                               
of  running more  ships in  the summer  and dry-docking  unneeded                                                               
vessels during the winter.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
NANCY  SLAGLE,  Director,  Division of  Administrative  Services,                                                               
Department  of  Transportation   &  Public  Facilities  (DOT&PF),                                                               
explained that  for financial  reporting purposes  the department                                                               
is required  to show the  value of its vessels  and depreciation.                                                               
She said  there is a replacement  fund in statute that  is funded                                                               
through appropriations by  the legislature from the  GF, but that                                                               
it is not funded  at this time.  She said  there is no connection                                                               
between  the  combined  annual   financial  reporting  and  money                                                               
appropriated to the  replacement fund.  In response  to a further                                                               
question,   she  confirmed   that  GASB   [Statement  34]   is  a                                                               
requirement for the state as  well as local communities, and that                                                               
the  department is  bound by  that requirement  in its  financial                                                               
reporting.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:37:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FAIRCLOUGH asked  whether  the  trend in  vessels                                                               
that transport fewer vehicles was a conscious decision.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON advised  that all  of the  plans call  for shuttle                                                               
ferries  that are  smaller, faster,  more efficient,  and require                                                               
less crew than  mainliners.  He noted that  while shuttle service                                                               
requires vessels  that are faster  than conventional  ships, they                                                               
do not necessarily need to be high-speed ferries.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FALVEY  further  pointed  out  that  AMHS  has  lowered  the                                                               
capacity on all its ships  because of security.  Vessels carrying                                                               
more than  499 passengers  are subject  to much  higher screening                                                               
levels  and  many more  security  patrols  that are  economically                                                               
unsustainable for  the AMHS.   He said  that AMHS has  a case-by-                                                               
case agreement with  the U.S. Coast Guard for those  times when a                                                               
vessel does need to carry 500 or more passengers.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:40:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  asked in  which direction AMHS  planned to                                                               
go  in  regard  to  management  style  and  deciding  whether  to                                                               
increase  the number  of  sailings and  whether  to purchase  new                                                               
ships.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON said he did not  yet have those answers because the                                                               
new  [DOT&PF]  commissioner only  recently  came  on board.    He                                                               
expressed his  belief that  it comes  back to  the new  roads and                                                               
shuttle  ferries  as  outlined in  the  Southeast  transportation                                                               
plan.  Until this plan is  implemented, he said, the question is,                                                               
what level does the legislature  want to fund the marine highway.                                                               
Mr. Torgerson added  that he realizes there are  routes that will                                                               
never  break  even,  but  that  the marine  highway  is  a  major                                                               
transportation link for moving goods and services.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:45:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI inquired  as  to whether  any studies  have                                                               
been done  on the economic  impacts of the marine  highway system                                                               
on the  overall economy of  Alaska, and what  ramifications would                                                               
result from reductions in the system.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TORGERSON   said  that  the  McDowell   Group  Research  and                                                               
Consulting Firm has conducted several  studies.  He said he could                                                               
not quote  any specific facts  or figures, but surmised  that the                                                               
level  of reduction  would determine  the  level of  impact.   He                                                               
promised to get the studies to the committees.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:46:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NEUMAN asked  whether  a cost  analysis has  been                                                               
done  for providing  ferry  service  on the  Yukon  River, and  a                                                               
determination made for the number of people that it would serve.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON said he is not aware of any.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SALMON  reported that  there was  a study  done in                                                               
the  1960s,  and that  he  is  introducing  a bill  to  undertake                                                               
another study.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:48:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN  commented that there  are many  different factors                                                               
that go  into the numbers seen  in the AMHS budget.   In relation                                                               
to  increasing costs,  he noted  that many  more communities  are                                                               
served today than 20 years ago and  that this is a benefit to the                                                               
state.  He asked whether  the new governor will be re-instituting                                                               
the Marine Transportation Advisory Board (MTAB).                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. TORGERSON  related his understanding  that Governor  Palin is                                                               
considering re-implementing  MTAB.  He  said he thought  that the                                                               
previous MTAB  was good,  but that  he would  have liked  to have                                                               
seen more board members with business experience.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. FALVEY added  that he thinks MTAB could help  in deciding the                                                               
bigger picture such as what ports to serve.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:51:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR JOHANSEN stated that MTAB was made up of stakeholders in                                                                  
the marine highway system and that it is important to have the                                                                  
stakeholders at the table.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:54:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committees, the joint                                                                
meeting of the House and Senate Transportation Standing                                                                         
Committees was adjourned at 2:54 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                

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